After listening to Natalie Goldberg’s new interview on ThoughtCast, ybonesy and I wanted to pass the information along to our readers. But we first wanted to take a moment to reiterate our gratitude for the teachings that Natalie has passed down to us. Our vision for red Ravine was born out of our writing practice and years of study with her.
Natalie invented writing practice. And in the interview, she talks about how Writing Down The Bones: Freeing The Writer Within broke a paradigm about writing. It started a revolution in the way we practice writing. The world was listening. Since 1986 the book has sold over one million copies and been translated into fourteen languages.
I listened to the interview again last night as I was preparing to write this post. Jenny Attiyeh interviewed Natalie in her home in Santa Fe. Natalie seems both relaxed and energetic. And ybonesy and I were talking about how good it is to hear her voice when she talks about confidence, building a strong writing spine, and learning to trust your own mind.
But I think I learn even more when she discusses her relationship to failure, success, loneliness, continuing to love after betrayal, and her study of Zen.
Writing practice is not Zen. But it is rooted in Zen. And Zen is a 2000-year-old study of the mind. Writing practice is the study of your own mind. And when we read literature, we are studying the minds of other writers. These are the things Natalie has taught us.
red Ravine is not just about writing practice. But writing practice is part of the structure of red Ravine. And something we are proud to pass along. We are grateful. We are part of the writing lineage.
And that’s why I have taped to the computer screen in front of me three things Natalie learned from Katagiri Roshi and now passes along to her students:
- Continue under all circumstances
- Don’t be tossed away
- Make positive effort for the good
Deep Bows all around.
Writer’s Hands II, Natalie Goldberg
signing a copy of Top Of My Lungs,
Taos, New Mexico, July 2007,
photo © 2007 by QuoinMonkey.
All rights reserved.
-posted on red Ravine, Wednesday, October 3rd, 2007
I listened to Natalie’s interview just a few days ago. Besides being stuck with such gratitude that I have had the opportunity to study with her, I heard such solid “knowing” in her voice. And not in the “I know everything about writing and look to me for the right answers,” but a sturdy calm about the way she writes and teaches. I did a slow-walk in my living room after I listened to her, and felt like I was back in the zendo with my writing friends. Silent.
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Thank you, QM. As always, you write with reverence and compassion. Deep bow to you and to Natalie and to the writers I’ve met through the many workshops I’ve taken with Natalie. And to our writing workshop friend who lost her brother unexpectedly — I know she doesn’t do blogs, but I send her my thoughts and prayers.
QM, I love the photo you took. I’m so happy that you have started this series of authors’ hands, like the one with Mary Oliver. I wish I would have made it to Rob’s booksigning so that I could have photographed his hands, too. Sigh. Next time.
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Teri, do you know what else I noticed about her interview? There are no “um’s” like there are with other people who do interviews.
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Teri, I just did a slow walk out in the crisp Fall morning. My feet naturally knew what to do. They fell right in sync. So grounding. I have been sad the last few days; I don’t know if it’s the time of year or things going on inside me. But when I sit in silence or slow walk, the groundedness comes back to me. The sadness also rises. And I hold it, sit with it. Part of what Natalie taught me.
I’m glad you mentioned the deep connection of silence. The Katagiri Roshi quote in the link is about silence. In case people miss it, I want to post it here:
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ybonesy, I’m grateful, too, for all the writers I have met through studying with Natalie, including you. I learn from each and every one of them. And have made some good friends.
I’m also grateful for the writers we have met through and on red Ravine. There is a community of online writers that visit us and join in our conversations here. I’m so grateful for their companionship.
For though we know people are reading, it is only through our readers’ comments and conversation that we will keep going strong. We write for ourselves. But it is all of our different communities that hold us.
I, too, was sad last night when I read about the brother of our writing friend. And I took a moment of silence for her loss. I know she doesn’t read here. But I trust the energy will reach her.
About the photo, thank you. I have many more in the series that I haven’t yet posted. There is something calming to me about looking at hands, particularly writers’ hands. Everything comes from the heart and out of those hands. All that energy.
Rob is close by you in miles. I am confident you’ll have the chance to see him read again. Perhaps the photograph will come to pass at another time.
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Hey, Teri, I wanted to mention that I picked up Ann Patchett’s memoir, Truth & Beauty, in a used bookstore the other day. Liz found it filed in the Fiction section with her novels. 8) I first heard about the book from you last summer…I think you had read it for a Taos workshop. Can’t remember the whole story. Was it before Iowa?
Anyway, it flows along. Details, details, details. I am enjoying it immensely. I’m trying to read lots of memoir right now.
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A recent issue of The New Yorker had a review of Ann Patchett’s newest novel, and the review compared it to Bel Canto. The review essentially said that Bel Canto was a better book (but isn’t that the kind of book that would be impossible to out-do??). The review also talked about Patchett’s memoir. Is it about her writer friend who died of drug addiction? I’m trying to remember now.
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yb, yes, it’s about the friendship between two writers – Ann Patchett and Lucy Grealy. Lucy wrote a memoir called Autobiography of a Face about losing part of her jaw to childhood cancer. About her death – it is still a discovery for me. I’ll keep reading. 8)
Oh, I think Patchett’s new book is called Run. I read a few reviews. Do you think you’ll read it?
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I didn’t notice that Natalie hadn’t said, “um,” but if I listen to the interview again, I am going to take special note. What I noticed is that sometimes the interviewer would ask those same old standard questions that writers get. Natalie didn’t miss a beat, was very respectful, and turned the questions around in the way only she could do. She didn’t try to squeeze into the mold, but refashioned the question so she could answer honestly.
Truth and Beauty is the memoir about Ann Patchett and her friend Lucy Grealy, the author who drank herself to death. Truth and Beauty is the one I read for Taos, a story of Ann and Lucy’s friendship, much of which takes place at the Iowa Writer’s Workshop.
QM, I’m enjoying your hand photographs. I can think of Mary Oliver, Natalie, and your mom cooking grits on the stovetop.
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How fortunate you are to have studied with her. I appreciate how you pass along what you’ve learned. Very generous.
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I just read your synopsis of writing practice, writing topics, and recall. I think this process is great! My next step is listening to the interview with Natalie, and then on to find her book. But before that, practice!
It’s just like yoga- we practice every day.
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I have read Truth & Beauty, Bel Canto and Autobiography of a Face. They are all amazing, QM, especially reading Truth and Beauty and Autobiography of a Face one after the other. Two different perspetives.
And I love the photo of Nat’s hands too! I am deeply grateful for her work in the world…and grateful for yours too. QM and ybonesy for President! Oh ya, I’m in Canada and don’t get to vote! Warm hug…
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mariacristina, I must have been over at your blog leaving a comment while you were over here. I enjoyed your topic about the writing critique group you joined and your reflection on whether there’s a way to do it differently, a la your yoga feedback experience. Here’s the link for anyone who’d like to join that conversation:
http://mariacristina.wordpress.com/2007/10/01/is-it-broken/
QM, yes, I would like to read both the memoir and the new novel, Run.
Joanne — your comment about QM and ybonesy for President made me think, what we call ourselves if we ran? I came up with QybonesMonkey 8-).
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Oh, my goodness, Joanne. I’m thinking the first thing we should do as QybonesMonkey is consider a law allowing Canadians to vote in our elections. I wonder about all the ways it might change the outcome. 8)
I plan to do just as you mention, Joanne, and read the two memoirs back to back. It sounds like a plan! Thanks for making me smile.
mariacristina, thank you! Maybe you’ll let us know any observations you have about the interview after you’ve listened to it. We’d love to hear about them.
Also, switching gears, I mentioned to ybonesy that I didn’t remember seeing too many self-portrait paintings from Natalie. Another thing that struck me was that she talked about how she wanted to be remembered.
It reminded me that each writer leaves a legacy behind (kind of like a president, now that I think about it). I bet it’s a lot like where our books get shelved – we don’t have a ton of control over that.
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quoinmonkey – Love the photo of writers’ hands – Natalie’s look like worker’s hands, which of course, she is.
I listened to the interview, which was lovely in how NM handled the interviewer’s very ordinary questions, and how candid she is, and accepting, of her experiences with her father and her Zen Master. I have saved the interview, and plan to revisit, whenever self-doubt assails me, for affirmation. Thank you for taking the time to put together the links in this post. G
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Love this. I’m going to sit down late tonight and give my computer at least a chance to play the podcast properly.
Katagiri Roshi, maybe he had no idea that those ideas would go through Natalie, and get to all the wondering minds here on this site. That positive effort for good sure yielded fruit.
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just read comments… only wanted to add that I loved Bel Canto. That is an incomparable work, I can’t imagine facing the follow up novel.
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Teri, remember the writer we saw at the Fitz with the beautiful burnt orange gloves on her hands? There will be one of her hands posted at some point. I hope to photograph a few more in October. It seems to be a big month for writers.
Oh, I’m so happy you remembered Amelia’s hands cooking grits, eggs, and bacon that morning when I was back home to visit. June seems like so long ago now. Where has the time gone?
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G, I felt the same way about the honesty and candor of the interview. One of the things I love about Natalie as a teacher is that she’s not afraid to reveal her vulnerabilities. She uses them as tools in her teaching rather than hiding them. I see that as a great strength. And it allows me to be vulnerable, too.
She does have strong hands. I noticed that detail again when I was working with the photograph. They are also tan in this shot. It was summer. I like to notice how writers hold their pens when they sign and what kind of pen they are using. Details. I can’t help it. 8)
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amuirin, you are so right. Positive effort for the good.
I wanted to include somewhere in these comments, the Philip Roth quote at the beginning of Truth & Beauty:
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Good advice! I will try to apply it to blogging:)
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Joanne,
I concur with you about reading Truth and Autobiography back-to-back. I read Truth and Beauty first, and had a strong, (mainly negative) view of Lucy Grealy. I grew weary of the self-centered behavior, the drama, and how she seemed to dominate the lives of the people trying to love her. Then, I read her book, and my attitude softened immensely. I was also able to listen to an interview she had given before she died (I must have found it while perusing the internet). I was really touched by her…what her life had been like.
When I went to the Iowa Writer’s Workshop last summer, I found myself thinking almost exclusively about Lucy, not Ann.
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QM,
Georgia was known for her flowers and bones. Ansel was famous for his trees and mountains. You, my dear, may make your artistic mark with hands.
Yes, I do remember the orange-gloved poet. Kind of makes you wonder.
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Another thought about Ann & Lucy…
It seems many of us wonder about writing the dirt on the people around us. How would we dare publish it and hurt their feelings? I may be remembering Truth and Beauty more harshly than it really was (it has been a few years), but I’m thinking that would be a great question to ask Ann when she comes to Minneapolis in a few weeks during the Q & A session. How did she decide to spill the beans about Lucy’s addictions and erratic behavior?
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I love that you have made and explained the connection between writing practice and Zen. Both resonate with me, and now I think I understand a little better why that is.
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Wow, pmousse, that’s so great to hear.
I was introduced to writing practice by several friends, but it wasn’t until I took a workshop with Natalie myself that the ideas really clicked. It’s so simple, I now see. I didn’t internalize the part that was connected to Zen practice. For me, up until I actually sat in a zendo with Natalie and others, and up until I sat in silence even (because my first workshop was a “talking” workshop), the so-called rules (keep the hand moving, don’t cross out, you’re free to write the worst shit in America, etc.) were simply rules. I didn’t get the connection to Zen — the slowing down, being present to the moment, connecting with who I really am — until much later.
That you are starting to understand that connection is a big deal. I think.
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Teri, that would be a good question to ask Ann Patchett at the Fitz. Maybe it’s something they talked about together. Let us know if you run into the interview with Lucy again. Or maybe I’ll run into it in my Internet travels and add the link.
I bet a lot of the focus on this tour will be on the new book. But you never know. Who’s the woman who does the interviewing for Talking Volumes? She’s great with the questions. And I love her voice. Sometimes I think she’s got the perfect job.
But then I think, she’s live, on the air, with temperamental writers on stage at the Fitz, and has to make it all work. That’s pressure!
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Kerry Miller is the host. I love her voice and stage presence, too. I never considered what you’re suggesting, that perhaps Lucy and Ann discussed what to reveal. I’ll let you know if I can find anything out about Lucy’s interview.
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Thanks for linking my post to your site. Your description here of the writing process, as well as the practice you offer, have been invaluable to be. There’s such a spirit of encouragement at red Ravine, which inspires playfulness and creativity.
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